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More on Dreaming

Posted by Phil on September 21, 1997 at 10:22:20:

In Reply to: Re: dreaming posted by Pat on September 08, 1997 at 22:12:44:

Hi Pat,

I have been thinking about your comments for a few
days. Hence the delay :^)

I am not sure that the concept of a dreaming self
as an entity distinct from any other self is a
very useful idea. Its bad enough having three
selves! This concept of a dreaming self is
obviously crucial to the whole question of whether
dreaming awareness is as confused by the logic of
linear events as our everyday waking awareness is
confused by logic of dream sequences.

I think we have to ask the question whether our
dreaming awareness is really a distinct self
apart from our conscious self. Then we are caught
up in the old greek and chinese paradox's of
dream-v-non dream reality. (Once upon a time I,
Chuang Tsu dreamed I was a butterfly flying
happily here and there, enjoying life without
knowing who I was. Suddenly, I woke up and I was
indeed Chuang Tsu. Did Chuang Tsu dream he was a
butterfly, or did the butterfly dream he was
Chuang Tsu). If it is a self does it sleep when
the conscious self is awake and if it sleeps does
it dream? All difficult questions beacuse we are
dealing with incomplete and possibly
fundamentally incorrect conceptualisations of
reality.

I have recently been considering the relationship
between the dreaming process and its effects on
the functioning of our memory and general
consciousness and the way in which a computers
hard drive can be defragmented in various ways
to optimize its performance. Interestingly in the
Gurdjieff - fourth way school spiritual
teachings there is a technique for reviewing in
your mind the whole of a days events and
experiences before you sleep that stops a very
large part of the night time dream process as
seemingly no longer being necessary. One of
Gurdjieffs aphorisms was "sleep little without
regret", which has a number of different meanings
but in this context would you be happy to sleep
less and dream but little or not at all?

I myself have lucid dreams on occassion but I
would not describe myself as a lucid dreamer in
as much as I do not persue it as a technique. Its
just happens.

As to what the conscious self should do with the
1/3 of a days rest that we give it? I am not sure
I understand the question as the conscious self
is asleep then and I am not sure that forcing it
to be lucid (ie conscious ) during dreaming is
necessarily helpful..... though it can certainly
be interesting!

Aloha

Phil

Follow Ups:

Gurdjieff Defrag Pat 14:10:37 11/07/97 (0)
Re: More on Dreaming Susan 20:57:53 10/23/97 (0)

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Comments:
: Hi Pat, : I have been thinking about your comments for a few : days. Hence the delay :^) : I am not sure that the concept of a dreaming self : as an entity distinct from any other self is a : very useful idea. Its bad enough having three : selves! This concept of a dreaming self is : obviously crucial to the whole question of whether : dreaming awareness is as confused by the logic of : linear events as our everyday waking awareness is : confused by logic of dream sequences. : I think we have to ask the question whether our : dreaming awareness is really a distinct self : apart from our conscious self. Then we are caught : up in the old greek and chinese paradox's of : dream-v-non dream reality. (Once upon a time I, : Chuang Tsu dreamed I was a butterfly flying : happily here and there, enjoying life without : knowing who I was. Suddenly, I woke up and I was : indeed Chuang Tsu. Did Chuang Tsu dream he was a : butterfly, or did the butterfly dream he was : Chuang Tsu). If it is a self does it sleep when : the conscious self is awake and if it sleeps does : it dream? All difficult questions beacuse we are : dealing with incomplete and possibly : fundamentally incorrect conceptualisations of : reality. : I have recently been considering the relationship : between the dreaming process and its effects on : the functioning of our memory and general : consciousness and the way in which a computers : hard drive can be defragmented in various ways : to optimize its performance. Interestingly in the : Gurdjieff - fourth way school spiritual : teachings there is a technique for reviewing in : your mind the whole of a days events and : experiences before you sleep that stops a very : large part of the night time dream process as : seemingly no longer being necessary. One of : Gurdjieffs aphorisms was "sleep little without : regret", which has a number of different meanings : but in this context would you be happy to sleep : less and dream but little or not at all? : I myself have lucid dreams on occassion but I : would not describe myself as a lucid dreamer in : as much as I do not persue it as a technique. Its : just happens. : As to what the conscious self should do with the : 1/3 of a days rest that we give it? I am not sure : I understand the question as the conscious self : is asleep then and I am not sure that forcing it : to be lucid (ie conscious ) during dreaming is : necessarily helpful..... though it can certainly : be interesting! : Aloha : Phil